Welcome to the celebrate brave podcast. 

I’m Nicole Trick Steinbach, your host, and the international bravery coach. On a mission to redefine brave. How we identify it, live it, and most importantly, celebrate it. Because when you build your brave, you change your world and that changes the world. Talk about something to celebrate. Let’s go.

Hello, brave people. I am super jazzed to introduce you to a woman that for me is a hard role model and someone who turns out didn’t know how much she impacted, my parenting and how I looked at myself until I reached out to invite her on to my podcast. So Sumina Kapoor is our fantastic guest today.

She and I actually met each other and knew each other in person when we were both living in Germany. And we’re both women in technology. Sumina has since gone back to her home country. India and I have gone back to my home country of the United States and we’ve stayed in contact and how Sumina just leaped into my heart to stay there for, forever is becoming a parent was really hard for me. I had models from my past I didn’t want to continue. I thought I had to do everything. I thought I needed to be this perfect, perfect. Everything was really, really tough. And I was dealing with a lot of postpartum anxiety.

And Sumina invited me over to her home, saw that I was exhausted, saw that I was a mess. Of course, didn’t say these things, but instead offered me a bit of advice. First asked for permission and then said;” you don’t need to do it all”. And while I was there in her home, her cleaning helper came and it was this huge shift for me.

That I didn’t have to do it all that I could ask for help. I could lean on other people and it was totally fine for me to be brave enough to share that my kid was making me crazy. I loved him and he was making me crazy. And I have carried that forward in my career, in my business and my parenting and my friendships and the clients that I work with, et cetera.

It’s okay to ask for help. I can be a job creator. And honesty is the best policy, even when folks are going to look down on me. So Sumina, I’m so excited that you’re here and I get to lift you up. Is there anything you wanted to add as an introduction to our audience? 

Thank you so much, Nicole. It was, I mean, you said so many kinds of things about me. Like I said, when you first invited me, I never realized that I did something like this. It was just a friend calling another friend over for coffee and a friendly chat. And I didn’t think of it as anything much more than that. So, I was so pleasantly surprised when you said all these things and I really hope I can always be a support and help to all the women in my life and men too, of course. as far as the introduction goes, yeah, you’ve pretty much said everything. We met in Germany while working together. And you were a very special friend to me and therefore we continue to stay in touch. 

Yeah. And what I love about this is that we don’t know what our magic is until someone points that out. Right. 

That’s, that’s absolutely true 

Because this directly relates into your story of bravery. So, what step of bravery can we celebrate today? 

So like I said, I kind of, you know, I think it’s the same with everybody. We don’t really realize what they’re doing, whether it’s something brave or not until somebody points it out to us. So it’s the same for me and I think I generally tend to, kind of play down whatever I’m doing. So I was really surprised that you wanted me to come on your podcast. Anyway, the reasons, I would say incidental bravery that I would like to share with you is how I kind of helped form a group of development consultants. So. Last year, I had just exited a company which I had formed, and one of the reasons was that when we started off, we were aligned on our vision. We wanted diversity and inclusion to be a major policy in the company, but somewhere along the line, the partners had a different view and I decided to call it quits. So it was intense. It was a lot of hard work. Last year I wanted to take it easy. I had taken up a consulting role and didn’t want to do anything much more than that.

 But then opportunities came my way. There were people in my network who were looking for resources, it actually started with asking me to join their team and things like that. But that’s when I thought I cannot join because I was already engaged with some other projects, but they’re all women who were my batchmates from engineering who were brilliant. I mean, much smarter than me, but had a career break and were not sure where to start and how to start again. That’s when I thought, let me not be lazy, let me just take on these projects. We can form a group and, and that’s exactly what happened. So I started off with just me and another batchmate of mine. And now I think eight months down the line, we have five of us and there are two different clients and we’re hoping to expand. There are new opportunities coming our way. So you’re hoping to expand more and help more women on board. And the best part is all five of us love what we are doing. There’s a lot of flexibility, we are all remote and will continue to be remote, even after the whole pandemic situation goes away.

So this kind of model really helps us balance our work and our personal life. And I’m so happy that all the other four ladies. They love it. And when I told them about your podcast, they said, you have to go there and speak about this because this is powerful. 

Yeah. This is why women rock! Women are like, I see your crown. You put that on. 

Yeah, that’s true. That’s true, 

Oh man. So what is, just extraordinary about this story is A: you are a business builder B: you have your vision and you have your value and you prioritize them. When that team decided to move away from the value and the vision of diversity inclusion equity, all these wonderful things you were like, I’m good. See ya. And then see, you must be really fricking great at your job. Obviously, we know that folks! But you must be because you are holding your boundary and your space and your expertise by thinking of others and serving them. And if your growth continues in that way. Oh my goodness! That’s so exciting. So saying no actually led to a really incredible opportunity. 

Absolutely something even better. And I’m working with people who understand. I mean, of course, if sometime in the future, our visions do not align anymore, there’s always the option of moving on and finding the next opportunity. But at the moment, we love whom we work with, the projects are amazing. The clients are amazing too. So it’s, it’s a very positive environment at the moment. 

Ah that is so fantastic. You know you don’t hear that very often, especially following 2020, right. But, wow. When you know, your vision and your value. It’s incredible how you can serve other people. So what is the most exciting thing? Cause I think that you mentioned other women had also taken the women you’re working with, had also taken a career break. Did I catch that right? 

That’s right. So all four, some have career breaks ranging between a year to six years, but what I knew about them. Because we went to the college together is that each one of them is really smart and, you know, really brilliant. And my conviction was not far from the target because once they started working for these clients, they are super respected. They are totally loved and they want more of them. 

Oh my goodness. So one to six years. So in Germany, that would be something common. The system over there. I mean, we both know, right? You, you leave work of, I think, six weeks before. You have your baby, your birth day, right? And then you have, I think it’s a year paid, but you can stay out for a certain number of years. I feel so old as I’m saying this, because I’m like, Hey, I lived there for 13 years. Why can’t I remember this? But I can’t.

So anyway, but here in the States, when somebody has taken a break like that, And some of my clients been faced with this even like five, six years. So they took a break, they went back to work five, six years later. They’re still getting silly comments about this break. Right. So what is it like in your area of India? Is it more like the German model or more like the American model or is it something entirely different? Like what are these women facing when they decide they want to reenter the workforce? 

So it’s more like the American model, I would say, but we do have six months. 

Okay 

But I mean, six months stayed maternity leave. So in India, but, there was nothing before the childbirth and after the six months, they are expected to be back. And that’s also something recent. I mean, a few years back, it was three months. So it’s improving, it’s been extended to six months of paid maternity leave now, but. 

Okay. I just have to interrupt really quickly. Sumina I want to hear, I want to hear the silliness later, but, really quickly, American audience members. I love you, all those biases that we have I just want to say India is ahead of us. We got to catch up. We’ve got to catch up. We got to catch up on the color, the food, the smells, and the mat leave ok y’all. Marching orders; got to catch up. Okay, go ahead. So, so if they don’t go back after six months, What kind of attitudes do they face when they decide that they do want to restart their careers.

  So one of the things I think is that there isn’t a lot of flexibility. It might be difficult. For daycare, is not so common or not the quality not good enough that mothers feel safe enough to leave their babies there. And one thing that I really find very difficult in the Indian job market, is that lots of companies expect, you know, people to be available for very, very long hours. So it’s not like, you know, the working day ends at five o’clock or six o’clock. It tends to go for much longer. And because of our culture, I would say set up, it’s easier for men to be available pretty much all of their baking arts. So that’s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, again, the society as a whole is changing. So I don’t want to stereotype, but a lot of things still remain. Like a lot of men do not have to do any housework or very little housework. They don’t have to do much childcare. It’s changing for the better, I should say that, but these are probably the roadblocks that prevent them from staying on in their jobs. And I think India has one of the lowest female participation in the workforce in the world, because of these factors.

It’s so interesting because, 

and it’s not just for children, sorry to interrupt. It’s not just for children, for parents, our parents-in-law, caring for them. when they get old or unwell, our grandparents. It’s like the responsibilities are kind of never-ending 

Girl, you just spoke to my heart. You can interrupt me anytime you want to. Yes!. Of course, we’re always talking about our lived experiences are different, right? This is the power of these global conversations and cross-cultural exchange when we aren’t in the same location, right? Like. We can have a relationship when we’re in person and in Germany and definitely share and talk about the silly Germans and their awesome bread. But then there is a whole other level when we’re in different cultures and talking about this, because what you just said is how I feel so often. And, my husband was a stay-at-home dad for a couple of years when we first moved to the United States. And we share this understanding that we share everything, right. There are things I’m better at things he’s better. But it’s really hard because every culture that we’ve been inside of, kind of celebrates that he does XYZ, which he thinks is absurd, right? Like, Oh, I picked up my socks. I do not deserve a parade, although. I tease them all the time. Whereas, you know, here I am building a business, I’m doing my consulting. I get to talk to you and amazing women like you on my podcast. And I’m raising kids and I’m, you know, doing house care with my husband. And it always feels like it’s not enough. From the outside. Do you know what I mean? Like from the outside, it’s like, Oh, you’re not enough.

 I go through these emotions as well. And then out here, I don’t know how it does in the United States, but out here in our culture, there are a lot of external people telling us constantly that it’s not enough. You’re not paying enough attention to your family or your child or your parents and so on. So. Yeah,  in our culture that is a fact.  almost like, you know, there’s this constant pressure to be perfect. And if you’re working, it’s like that, you know, you can work if you want to, but it’s like, you’re being selfish and you are if you have an ambition. So that kind of has to do with, it’s still something that we face a lot. 

Oh my gosh. Yes. Yes. I was just on a different podcast. It hasn’t been released yet, but the host said. “And tell me more about your ambition”. And I, I, I was like, Whoa, wait a second. You just said that, like, it was a good thing. It is a good thing, but yes, I, I get the same kind of comments and I mean, I invest in my own life coach. Who is taking me to do something with horse? I’m like super nervous about this whole horse thing, but that’s okay. Side note because of the constant pressure and having a soft front to listen to people and be empathetic and connect and have these types of conversations, but a strong back of belief. Yeah. I feel like I need wine now. It is like the universal truth

I am surprised. Honestly, I thought it was something specific to our culture. 

Hmmm, No, I think it’s the human condition. Of course, how we experienced that is going to be different. Right. Because. I mean in the United States, things are so expensive that it’s quite privileged to have had a stay at home. Dad.  like that. . Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I don’t know about y’all, but I just, I’m feeling so connected and so full and so seen and understood. . So Sumina as we wrap up our conversation, is there anything you’d like to leave us with? If it is connecting with me, it can happen over LinkedIn, but, other than that, what I do follow a  virtual guru Sadhguru . So there’s a lot of his stuff are available on YouTube. So whenever I’m down or when I feel a little bit negative, I listen to his talks or I do his meditation. He has these guided meditations. They helped me a lot. And something which I really believe in is, you know, take all the help, that you can get. For you to told me as well about me, and this is something that I have practiced all my life.

It doesn’t matter where this is coming from. And you don’t need to feel indebted. I mean, You can always pay it forward if you can’t pay it back. So wherever you get help from, whoever’s willing to give you help or support, you should always take it wholeheartedly because sometimes life can be tough and these things make life a little bit easier to live.

Oh my goodness. There’s no better way to end this conversation. Thank you

Thank you so much, thank you, it was really great talking to you again 

Hmmm, ditto!. Oh my goodness. This sets up my day, my week in a really wonderful way. So thank you so much. 

Thank you 

Thanks again for listening today. If you are ready to build your brave for more money, deeper relationships, and more opportunities in your life. Reach out to me, Nicole Trick Steinbach. I would love to help you. And please remember to rate and review this celebrate brave podcast so that more people can support our movement to redefine brave, how we define it, live it, and celebrate it.