Welcome to the celebrate brave podcast. 

I’m Nicole Trick Steinbach, your host, and the international bravery coach. On a mission to redefine brave. How we identify it, live it, and most importantly, celebrate it. Because when you build your brave, you change your world and that changes the world. Talk about something to celebrate. Let’s go.

Hello, brave people. I am so excited to welcome, Kathi McCarty, on to my podcast. So a little bit about Kathi, from my perspective, and then she is going to introduce herself as well. So I met Kathi I believe two years ago, and we met through a mastermind. And the first time I heard Kathi’s story y’all this is a brave moment for me, It was a bit overwhelming for me. So, having been born into a single mom family welfare, all those wonderful things, a safe, consistent home has been a huge, important thing for me. And I’m already getting teared up. So when Kathi shared her story, about her home being ruined and how she has now braved it up, stepped into her brave. Oh my goodness. All the things. To not just turn her own challenge into a wonderful solution, but to make sure that hundreds of thousands of people live in a safe home. And so she founded an organization. I’m going to let her describe, but I just want everyone to know, that’s why Kathi’s on this podcast because she has stepped into a movement, that…I just, I can’t think of any more wonderful way to describe it than making sure everyone has a home. That they live in and that they are safe and healthy.  So, Kathy, would you like to introduce yourself? 

Thank you, Nicole, for having me here. I think I got a little Misty myself from that very kind introduction. Yes, my name’s Kathy McCartney and I am the founder and advocate for meth toxins awareness Alliance. As you mentioned, it does launch from a personal story.

You know, I’m a person that found myself in the later years of life with a health event that started five years ago. This time. It did almost cost me my sight, but I had nothing but gratitude that I had good healthcare and amazing surgeons that saved my sight through an auto-immune disease I learned I had called graves’ disease that led to a secondary condition called thyroid eye disease, Teds.  And that’s what caused that. That subsequently led me to several surgeries in a short period of time and all I’m a mother of three amazing kids. And at that time in 2017, the next year, following some surgeries and in other paths, I chose to rent out our home in the foothills west of Denver in Evergreen, Colorado. And I made that decision because everybody was away at college. I was the only one at home. There was a life change with a health event. It impacted my career, which was what I refer to as a very successful rewarding career in finance lending and banking. I had to leave that career. And so there were some, you know, there were financial avenues to, to navigate with three kids in college. And so I rented out the home. In 2018 I used a property manager. The first year I did it myself on and off and the second year, I used a management company as I rebuild my world and what my next chapter was going to look like.

Within 90 days of that tenancy, I had a minor home maintenance issue that I was told about. A waterline break outside the home that I, it was shared that it was minor. And I came to the home the next day and I learned that it was not minor. There was a large excavator in my driveway, and I made a sweep around the home, including the back of the home, where I learned of some hardware that I could not explain, did not recognize. Pictures to friends resulted in them suggesting that I get a search warrant, which I did. And once they serve the search warrant, they found a significant amount of additional hardware, chemicals, and an arsenal of guns. A significant amount of multiple different types of drugs, including over 800 grams of methamphetamine in the making of a methamphetamine lab.

. Oh my goodness. I did not. Okay. Okay. Okay. Keep going. I didn’t know. It was that.

It was intense. It was quite intense. And what I learned. Part of what was so amazing to me is all the due diligence I had done upfront about asking the right questions about vetting the tenant and ensuring that certain things were done and none of that was done. But then that put me on a huge journey. Many of them were the first a hundred hurdles in the first hundred days about. getting the tenant removed the safety issues at my home, the explosive nature of the hardware, and the chemicals literally was very impactful to the community, my neighbors, and the whole community. It was only three months after Paradise, California, which was a community, it burned down. And I live in the foothills in the forest and we had just gotten out of a stage one fire ban or a stage two fire ban. We were in a stage one fire ban. And so everybody was in danger. the arsenal of guns alone on the property. As I was navigating over a couple of days, the managing of the water line break, the maintenance issue and not knowing what was in the home and what he was capable of alone was frightening. And the other people that were on the property with me, so.

 Oh my gosh. So there’s this massive drug production, regardless of the services you’ve paid for. So those of you who remember those images of the smoke over Colorado and California, that’s, that’s the level we’re talking about here. This is incredibly dry, fast-moving an arsenal. And you had no idea. So you got this person or these people out of your property.?

Yes. Yes. I had to have him evicted. He offered to let me pay him to leave since the home was inhabitable because the water was not working, but..

What a generous fellow!

But yeah, that was, he was arrested on 14 felony counts, went through the process of being led out and bail and those types of things. And he eventually skipped town and he’s been gone. He never showed for his criminal trials. So one of the things that I found out in this process when there is a crime committed in your home, Or when there’s criminal activity of any sort internal or, or from an outside source, your insurances are void because of the nature of what I learned about methamphetamine being cooked in my home, you know, I obviously went to the computer and Googled it and found out I really needed to have my home tested, especially when he was manufacturing it and it wasn’t recreational use. And then I ordered the tests. The levels were so high, Colorado has one of the best standards for only tolerating the lowest numbers. So the levels were, the standard is 0.5. And I won’t, I won’t bore everybody with a lot of detail here, but the standard is 0.5 and nine out of the 11 zones that were tested in my very modest restored cabin it is a ’56 cabin, a log home. Were between 69 and 119. 

Holy Crap! So, wait second. So can we just back up for one second? So you mentioned you had insurance and because a person that had gone through all of, you know, this, this rental system, whatever, and then passes their issues, your insurance was not valid. So the people who are managing the property?. Oh my gosh. As you guys can tell, I’m learning more about this story as we are going. . So you’ve got this, like, I don’t even know what the math is on that. So if it’s 0.5 and you’ve got 69….

it’s hundreds of percent above the standard, hundreds of percent. And, and so yes, there was what I felt was a responsibility under the management and agreement that we had on the standards of care or the standards that a property manager would normally take, like even just pulling a credit report. And what I learned when all this happened is, is I requested the, you know, the file, the vetted file that they did. And, there, there was no information in that file. There was no credit report. There was no documentation to verify income. There was no documentation to verify cash flow and capacity. And that’s my background in lending, you know, over 30 years. And so I asked all the right questions regarding even their insurance and was assured that they had significant enough insurance under their umbrella of managing my property. And it turned out that they didn’t have that either. So I found myself in a dual situation of trying to get whole. Because I still had to pay my mortgage. I had to formally file, pursue a lawsuit to hold the management company responsible under their errors and omissions insurance. For what I thought was neglected misconduct under their management agreement. And they stated that regardless of what they did or did not do he still the one that cooked the meth and he was ultimately responsible. 

And so I entered it into a year and a half legal battle to try to get, whole on all this. And it was a very complicated, legal battle. What I learned is that all of our insurances, when you have a residential property, even if you’re using it for commercial purposes, Like I was, and I had an endorsement on my policy to have a renter in there. He had his own tenant policy, all these insurances, they had errors and omissions insurance, but it, it was very minimal, it turned out. As opposed to what was stated. I still had to fight a legal battle and pay for all these pieces in order to try to get resolution. And after a year and a half, I had to enter in, into a mediated agreement or, you know, I don’t discuss who the company is, but the other pieces of it, I am free to discuss, I don’t discuss the amount or, or who it is, but I couldn’t get whole. . 

Oh my goodness. So you had a health situation. Now you’re basically houseless, right? you can’t live in this house. You don’t have this place anymore, right? 

It condemns the home and you’re not allowed to be in there when the standard in our state is above 0.5 in the home is formally condemned by the County. Until you can remediate it to the standards for your state if your state has a standard. And so I  learned about meth toxins for dummies, including the insurance process. The legal system, there’s a criminal case in tandem with a civil case. And then there’s the remediation process, the insurance process, and the health impacts of what meth toxins is. And if you remediate it to the standards, what does that mean? And what I, what I learned is that remediation doesn’t necessarily mean it’s gone. 

Okay. I have tears in my eyes. How did you turn that into your movement? Because you now have an Alliance, you are educating I don’t even know how many people, although I follow you online. How girl, how did you turn into the person that is literally saving people’s health?

Well, it’s been a journey two and a half years since the inception of when this started, which was literally October of 2018. And it’s been an emotional, a physical journey on so many levels and I have nothing but gratitude in my heart, a little grit in my soul and feel blessed that I could somehow through the, the fog of it all and the impact. I knew from the beginning, I was literally standing on my deck, talking to the, the owner of the meth testing company. And I said, all these questions came up for me and I, because of my background in, in the lending piece and whatnot, and, and working in a peripheral area of real estate for over 30 years, I was shocked that insurance didn’t cover this. I didn’t know about these things, that meth toxins were even an issue when it’s smoked or manufactured. Based off of the limited information that I knew about meth, as you know, from a user, somebody who would use it or have an addiction to it, it was just mind-boggling. And I knew I had to do more and I, I literally asked the owner of that company, if they ever spoke in front of realtors and other trusted advisors about this topic to bring this awareness. And she said that yes, they did. And I said, you know, as soon as I can get through the impact of this piece can I put you in front of a bunch of people that I know? And she said, yes, absolutely. And so that’s where the brainchild of all this started during the testing phase of it.

And since then, I literally have been channeling what I refer to as my Erin Brockovich through all of this, that that’s who the role model that I remembered through all of this. Based off the movie that Julia Roberts played, she at that time was, you know, somebody who was a law clerk who recognized a great injustice with contaminated water in a small local community. And there was a plan to that was letting their, their wastes go into the water. And she followed the trail of contamination and connected the dots and, you know, made this huge impact after people were deathly ill and died and, and all of that. So that’s, that’s where this all came from. 

Your inner Brockovich. I love it. The other thing that I’ve noticed is that you said recently from breaking bad, which I never watched by my husband was a huge fan of , like pizzas on roofs and God knows what else. To breaking worse, to breaking wide open and I’m currently reading the book; broken, open. I mean, just all the emotions here, breaking bad and breaking worse, breaking wide 

And breaking out my bad-ass.

Oh my God. Yes! Breaking out your badass. 

All these pieces are coming, you know, coming together as I literally saw some, some, at least a legal resolution at the end of 2020 and have stepped into 2021 with a little bit of these personal chapters behind me and feeling hope about my future. You know, one of the impactful things is, is I had bought that home. I’m a single mom. I spent several years personally renting while, I navigated some of that own journey, bought the home in 2013 and absolutely loved it.  It was on a payment to accelerate payoff. And I was within single digits of having that home paid off in my goal to align my retirement, at the same time I had that home paid off. Of course, I had this health event and that fast-forwarded an early health retirement, but at the same time, I had a significant amount of equity in that home. And I literally sold that home in early April of 2020, leaving all my equity on the table and just selling for literally what I owed on it and enough to pay the expenses to sell it.

Then the fast-forward story as is I sold it because I had several remediation companies come up there and tell me that, although they were happy to try because of the nature of the construction being logged, mostly wood. And how porous it is. They weren’t confident that they could get it clean to the Colorado standards and it could be very expensive and they couldn’t guarantee their work. And there was recommendations to demo it. And it wasn’t just one or two companies. It was several. So that’s how I proceeded from a legal standpoint that all I wanted to do was have them rebuild a home right there, or replace a similar type of home. And of course, I was met by arsenal well, four large legal law firms of fighting me. It was a very David and Goliath situation. 

And this sounds to me as I’m listening to you, it sounds to me like that’s what a lot of people would run into.

I have since in this journey, met several people who have had different variations of their own meth toxin impact story with their homes and or their lives. And they too run into resistance of the people who impacted their lives. Certainly not stepping up to their responsibilities. 

So for folks that aren’t familiar with this, what would be the health? So let’s say that me. I have two small children, currently seven and nine. We move into a new place. I have an autoimmune disorder. My husband is the healthiest person you ever done meet. What would be the impact to us? Health-wise, moving in unknown to a home that has even the 0.5. 

That is a great question. Everybody is impacted differently based off the sensitivities of their own bodies. Small children are exceptionally susceptible because they’re there on the ground a lot. They’re, they’re touching things. This residue from either the smoking, the usage or the manufacturing gets into our furniture, our clothes, the carpets, the walls, and the health events can be heavy respiratory issues, it can be minor respiratory issues to very significant respiratory issues. Children have behavioral issues, sleeping patterns. The things I researched on the internet are very significant. Elderly people can be highly impacted. People at risk like yourself and me with we have auto-immune issues. My son is asthmatic. Expectant mothers who have unborn babies. It’s been learned that the, the baby once born could have some very major health issues that could affect their central nervous system, as well as their respiratory system learning disabilities, behavioral issues, you name it. It’s it’s out there

 If someone was to walk into a home that’s contaminated, so it’s dangerous. Can you see it? Can you feel it? Can you smell it? 

It depends. There are some people who say that sometimes when they go into a home that has meth talks and impacts it, it can smell like cat urine. There can be a chemical type of smell to it. There might be physical signs. What I’ve learned is, you know, we had this impression of it would be an inner-city, high crime, low-income type of area that would be impacted, but I’ve learned that there are no socioeconomic or geographical boundaries associated with meth toxins. And in my home, when I walked into it, I literally could not be in my home longer than 30 seconds with my eyes burning. But then I have issues with my eyes and my sight. And so I was hypersensitive in that area where the meth testing company, they were able to stay there for a few hours and test all the areas they needed to test. And I literally was outside the whole time. 

Oh, my goodness. And I just really want to underline what you just said because there is this having, you know, I was born in Dayton, Ohio. I grew up in Appalachia on welfare, and now I have nod with executives because that is my role. There is no correlation. Meth use does not cut across just one segment of society. And so when I looked at your website, I noticed that new constructions, old, new, I mean, everything could potentially have this. So when you started this Alliance group and now, you know, it’s been going for a while now, at least. I Think about two years, at least that I’m familiar with it. You know, what, what are you undertaking concretely? And then if you could weave into there a little bit about how you really had to build your brave, which is such an inspiring story to get, to get the impact that you’re creating. 

Yes. Absolutely. So I, I did build the foundation with the, with the help of our mastermind coach, as well as a team of other experts to do the technology, to build a website that could be a resource for people in the way of prevention, as well as resource, if there was impact. But first, to answer your question about new construction through this process I learned that this was not just isolated to our homes, our properties, whether we rent them out and somebody else lives in them, or we live in them ourselves. It’s commercial properties, it’s our cars, our vehicles. To give you an example this person was a heavy user and the vehicle was impacted, but I don’t know that it was ever tested. . I think it was a leased vehicle and could have just been sold on an auction when they repossessed it. So these things get handed off and it’s very disturbing. It could be in our RVs and our trailers, Airbnbs in our VRBO’s or hotels and motels. And, anywhere and everywhere there’s no immune space. And so my goal is to bring this issue top of mine as a preventative piece, to, especially in the communities when real estate is so hot right now where I didn’t know that meth toxins was an issue. And yet since I bought my first home, At 28 and I just turned 60 last year. You know, I’ve had several homes for personal use, as well as rentals. I had no idea that meth toxins was even an issue and we should be testing for it. So what I’ve tried to do is align with trusted advisors in the industries around real estate, as well as real estate community, property managers, lenders, the insurance industry to help educate or re-educate them on dissipating this kind of information to their clientele, to their friends, their families, to anybody and everybody who will listen. So we can take a proactive approach. And if we’re going to look to buy a home, to invest the money that it costs to ensure that that home is not contaminated with meth toxins. And then they end up with the health issues, the safety issues, as well as then the significant financial impact. If they end up finding out that the home , has meth toxins in them, then they’re, they’re stuck with the price tag to, to remediate it. If it’s remediated. 

That is outstanding. Okay. Wow. That’s a huge cultural change. 

It’s a mindset shift that people don’t want really to embrace. It’s hard during these times when there’s, there are a lot of tough situations going on in general, but the market is, as you know, here in our community. I mean, it’s hot. There are sometimes a dozen or more offers and inspections are waived in clauses to get under contract.

But at the same time, their goal is to well, at least tested, even if you have to waive the inspection clause. So it’s impactful. And I am engaging on a huge cultural shift to bring this awareness and this education by hosting classes, I’ve aligned with testing companies in our communities that have a continuing education credit to these classes. So we are  encouraging individuals to participate, but if you’re a trusted advisor or professional, That needs CE credits that you can also benefit from these classes is part of your continuing education. And we had to pivot, obviously, a shift on to online. Last year, we started doing these through zoom online, and we can go anywhere with this. It’s only in the state of Colorado currently that we have the CE credit piece to it. 

Okay, so thank you. And I know that I have a better understanding for this. Out here in Colorado you guys, houses for over a million dollars are under contract with cash offers, waived everything within 24 hours sometimes. So it really is a huge culture shift that we’re talking about here, awareness building and understanding the dangers of. Meth toxins and anything right. So, Kathy, I’m just interested in you as a person. So what has been, I want to say, like, what’s the biggest learning of yours, but I think I should open it up because it sounds to me like you’ve gone through a massive growth as you’ve become the victim into not just a survivor, but the leader of this. What are some of the biggest personal shift, maybe skills, attitude, mindset that you have experienced throughout this journey. 

Well one of the things that I’ve learned through this process is I am truly an extroverted introvert and this type of stage Inforum has certainly not been one that I have seeked in, in the past, in my previous roles, you know, I’ve been in a, somewhat of an adventure and other areas of my life, I’m resilient. And, but I’m always a mama bear. So with three kids, but this type of environment is, is certainly a, a new one for me, but I’m choosing, again and again, not to be a victim in this process. I’m leaning into the imperfections of this process. And I’m learning to be patient with myself as well as off others. I have some limitations with my sight and then, so to get this message out, I have to rely on other people to help me with many of the pieces to move this out. And, and so that’s important, but I’m also learning to really go a lot deeper internally. You know, walk this battle daily and choose bravery, regardless of the circumstances. Walking this journey, I’m finding my grit with gratitude and I’m embracing the joy that I can also find along the way and to continuing to expand on the adventure in me, I’m a little bit of a gypsy at heart, and I’ve always chosen the path less traveled. And I, I believe I continue to do that every day and lean back into a much smaller group of friends and family who my net is, is with, along with, you know, what we’ve been experienced with the pandemic my net is cast in a much smaller geography, but it goes much deeper. So I’m learning to go a lot deeper with, within myself. 

Beautiful. Grid and joy, gratitude, behavior, connection. Wow. Oh my goodness. So is there anything, as we come towards the end , is there anything that I just didn’t ask that you want to make sure our audience knows about your journey, about your service? Just about being a woman in this world? Like anything.

 I would summarize by certainly tapping into your resources within your own community, your own County health department is gonna have resources that you’re going to be able to use or your own state, even my website, I have links to all the States where you can go and search a property to see if there is a contamination listed on a property that either you’re in now and you want to know about a history or a property that you might be interested in the future, whether it’s residential or commercial, it should be potentially listed. You know, there’s a lot to get up to speed on. In the different States and, and what their tolerances are, but the website has that, but certainly to do your due diligence and in your own home search,budget for the tests, because here in our state of Colorado, which is another piece I’m looking to effect change on , legislative changes. Once a home is remediated to the standard of that state or the standard of our state here, it does not have to be disclosed that it, that it was contaminated. And that’s what ended up happening with my home is, the people who bought it they didn’t end up tearing it down and buying it for land-only and rebuilding, they bought it and they remediated it to the standard of here in our state.

And then they resold it. And they didn’t have to disclose the previous. Yup. They didn’t have..

WHAT! Oh my God. 

Five months after they bought it from me, they remediated it. They remodeled it, they flipped it and they sold it for almost 300,000 more than what they bought it from me for. So they were able to recapture that equity, but I believe that I have no idea if whoever bought it knew about any of the contamination and how that was perceived. You know, I had the feedback that even if it was remediated, it would still, it would still be there somehow. And that doesn’t mean it’s gone. So it’s simply about sampling as far as meth testing and then the remediation process. And you could test in one spot and it could still be there in other spots. And so. It’s really getting educated on that piece.

Yeah, totally. Oh my goodness. You know that the neighbors were like, Hey, you know, the history of that house, you know, the neighbors were like, what? Evergreen is gorgeous. It’s small, it’s sprawling to a certain extent, but oh, that is, that is craziness.  

That is Craziness.So that’s what I’m learning. And you know, just recently, just even this week alone, I have to say that I learned of a home in our community, and this isn’t isolated to our community. This is any city, any state, any rural area. It’s global. If people were to actually Google it, there are problems in every community, city or rural area. So our community is an isolated, but I learned of a recent property that the people who owned it did not know it was contaminated with meth. They found out from the neighbors, they tested it and it has since come back hot. And I, I still do not know it’s been a few days now and I still don’t. I don’t know if, I haven’t been able to confirm whether that was my previous home or not.

So we’re to follow, but this is what impassions me even more. And I am developing the alliances within our, our city, and our state here to bring legislative change, hopefully by the next session and whatnot, and bringing that information to the real estate community and getting as much of a coalition built and, and support behind it.

Oh, well, I wish you a lot a lot of luck and it’s wonderful to support this in any way. I’m just, I’m bowled over. I’m utterly bowled over. So, but unfortunately, we’re coming to the end of our time . . So how can people follow you? How can they support you? 

Great. Thanks for asking. I do have a website, meth toxins. That’s plural, T O X I N S. Alliance.com. And this is a, this is a work in progress. I’ve got the phase one of it out there. I’ll be adding some free downloadable pieces of information. People who want to talk more can contact me. I’ve been aligning with partners in many industries and sponsorship programs ways to contribute and develop an income stream to help support the work that needs to be done here through the legislative changes as well as the educational platform. So I welcome people just to go to methtoxinsalliance.com on the internet. I also have a Facebook page, Facebook it’s meth toxins awareness Alliance would welcome you to link onto us there, follow us. I’m plucking articles and all sorts of information. We post our events. I have an events page. So people who want to listen in on our on our classes can do that. You don’t have to be a professional right now. We’re doing them for free. Can’t make it any cheaper than that. And easier than that. And it’s on the events page. We have one coming up on Tuesday, but I think with the link there, as well as our April events. So I welcome people to just go on and register and come play with us.You know, in the sandbox and get educated. 

Right. Excellent. And I will make sure all of those resources are made available in the show notes. And definitely when I share this episode out. I know that I started this podcast episode and I’m not one to repeat myself a lot. I’m going to here though. I want to underline. Kathy. I want to really underline for you and for our listeners, how devastating this must have been and how much you have grown out of the devastation and into powerful, bold, sustainable leadership. That was a choice. That is a choice that you made. That’s a choice we all get to make, and I am so grateful you were willing to share your story where you started and how you are concretely supporting, making this a better place world on this podcast celebrate brave. There is no better way to celebrate extending and changing the definition for bravery because what you have done is truly ……..oh man, virtual hugs.

 I choose, I choose every day, again and again, to not be a victim in this situation, I’m embracing the adventure. I could not do this without the support of my family and dear friends. I sit here from a dear friend’s home. Who’s walked this journey with me where I’m houseless, but I’m not homeless currently. And I’m embracing the adventures and it’s game on game on!

Ah, yes, that is right. Oh, thank you girl. And all the details will be in the notes and with that, I wish us all the best. 

Thank you, Nicole. 

Bye. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of the celebrate brave podcast.

If you’re ready to build your brave, to live a life you love, and create a career that matters to you. Reach out! Together we can spend time one-on-one to explore how I can help you. And until then share this episode with people in your life. People who can join our movement. To redefine brave how we identify it, experience it, and celebrate it.