I’m Nicole Trick Steinbach, your host, and the international bravery coach. On a mission to redefine brave. How we identify it, live it, and most importantly, celebrate it. Because when you build your brave, you change your world and that changes the world. Talk about something to celebrate. Let’s go.

Hello brave people! On this episode of the celebrate brave podcast. We are welcoming Brenda Reid. I Approached Brenda….No, actually, I posted on LinkedIn looking for people to come on here. And you said yes. And I gave a little squeal. For those of you who know me in real life. You know, that I squeal when I’m excited because when I met Brenda, she was this heart-centred leader who also had really, really high expectations. And we were working together at a tech company called SAP. And since then, Brenda has moved to PWC. She’s a global leader for HR technologies. She’s also, and this really speaks to me with my background, a teen mom who turned that into advocacy for hundreds of teen moms, through the Hope House in Colorado, as well as many other conversations with professionals. She’s a rockstar woman in tech and her brave story is one that’s inspired by the mental health awareness of May. So, Brenda, is there anything that you want to add? 

Thank you for having me, Nicole. I am thrilled to be here. I’ve spent a lot of May just being vulnerable and open about all things, mental health. I think we have to lead out loud. So here I am, and I’m just happy that you wanted to have me. So thank you. 

Oh, I’m so excited. Okay. So the fun story, and Brenda and I spoke beforehand about a number of different options. I want to share that I knew Brenda throughout this entire story, and I had no idea. And when I learned years later, it was really inspirational how people can, well, Brenda is going to share her story and still give so much because who we are is so special. So, Brenda, would you share your brave story with us? 

Well, thank you. I am happy to. So yeah, it’s so funny when you can look at it all now in the rearview mirror, right? It’s the changes that it brought, but my story really started in 2017. I called 2017 affectionately the year that broke Brenda. And it did, it was, it was death by a thousand paper cuts that year. I. We went from my dad being fine to losing him over the course of about 10 months, which so many people face. Like, I think it’s the thing with my story. You’re going to find yourself in a piece of it. Everyone that listens to this will find themselves in a piece of it. And that’s my sincere hope and in sharing it too. So we lost my dad. To, um, Lewy Body dementia. And that was, you know, Lewy Body attacks, the physical, it is like Alzheimer’s meets…….  meets a whole bunch of physical stuff and it all just clashes up against each other. So he was losing his body as much as he was losing his mind. And, and we ended up making really difficult decisions about putting them in memory care and estate sailing their lifelong home and just all of the pain that, that came with that and the stress of needing to do that at the same time that we were navigating losing dad. But on top of all of that, I had so many other things that year. I had, I had a family member who was in the throes of alcoholism and in an abusive marriage that decided that they finally reached a breaking point to leave that. And I had to set some tough boundaries around that because I needed to be there for dad. And really wanted to be there for them. And that was really hard. So that took a toll. My daughter had a health crisis, a pretty significant health crisis that really had some potentially massive implications. Thank God that none of that ended up coming to fruition. But at the time when you’re going through it, you don’t know that. Right?. And so we were juggling all of that. I had a big big high profile project at work. That was a significant weight. And it had me on the road a lot. So I was juggling all of those things at the same time I was on the road. So that year was just a culmination of, so many things at once. And my coping mechanism is to just power through, I dive in, I find a problem, I get to the root of the problem. I power through the problem. And then somehow after the problem’s gone and it’s solved, then my body goes okay, now we can be compressed from all of that. And I think it was such a sustained year of stress. I wasn’t sleeping. I wasn’t, you know, everything was disrupted. And so after we lost dad in October, which was kind of like the grand finale of the year, if you will, you know, in November and December, I just, I thought it was grief, right. I just blamed everything. I’m grieving. And, and there probably was a fair amount of that, but I wasn’t sleeping. I wasn’t. Now I know I wasn’t a hundred percent at work. I had an amazing team who did all the heavy lifting. I don’t know how I would survive this without the team, but I just wasn’t me. And finally, about mid-January, I hit this point where I just realized there was no joy left in my life. Any more things that that should bring me joy, my grandbabies, for example, weren’t bringing me joy.Things that, that, you know, you should be excited about. There just was no joy left. And that’s when I realized, like, this isn’t just grief. Like something’s not right. And I really had trouble accepting that because I felt like I was weaker. I was somehow not worthy. I was a bad leader. Like, you know, you put all these pressures on yourself that somehow admitting that you need help suddenly devalues you as a person. And I had to get beyond that to the point that I was like, I, I can’t solve this on my own. I’ve been trying, I clearly something is not right. And I took a leave of absence from work during not an easy time to do that. And it was just time that I needed to spend some time focusing on this and figuring out what this was. And so I took that leave of absence and went and saw a therapist and saw my doctor. And we worked through all the different pieces that were part of that. And I’ve learned, you know, I had a panic attack in the middle of all of that. I’ve never had a panic attack before. If anyone’s not had one, you know, we hear them and you, you kind of think, okay, whatever, but it’s…….. There were three hours of my life that I can’t tell you anything about because I sat in a chair, just frozen staring at the wall and my daughter came and she’s like, mom, I’ve been trying to get ahold of you. I can’t, you know, you’re not responding. Something’s not right. And I didn’t even know I’d been there. I’d been sitting there just frozen from this for so long. And so I just had to get to the root of all of these things and get past the stigma associated with all of them, which is why it’s really important for me to talk out loud about it. And that this month is really important to me because I think so many people are afraid to admit that they need and want help. You know, when you’re depressed, when you have anxiety and turns out I had all of those things, I had to get my sleep sorted out. There were just a lot of things that came out of that, that I’ve been able to really turn the corner with. But if I hadn’t pressed pause, And if I hadn’t taken that moment to prioritize my health and my mental health over all the other things that were, were seeking for my attention, I don’t know what I would be like right now because, you know, I joke, I say I lost my mojo, but I did. And I knew I needed to get that back. And pressing pause was the only way to do that. So being willing to walk away was, that was a brave moment for me. That was, it was high risk from a career standpoint. It did not come at a good time. Does it ever come at a good time? But you know, when you’re in the middle of some pretty visible stuff, Then that exposes it in what feels like very different ways. So that was, that was my brave moment. And I’m so glad I did it. And if telling my story helps one other person, press pause. Maybe before they get as far down as I did in the cycle, then it’s totally right. 

Yeah oh my goodness! 

That was, that was my year. And I think, you know, you and I was on that leave of absence. I think when, when you had reached out and we had coffee and kind of chatted so that the timing was, was incredible. Cause you’re right. You were along for that entire ride. 

Yeah and had no idea that, I mean, I knew that there was a lot going on in your life. What I loved about your story too, is that you shared, I set boundaries for this family member and you were obviously so informed about, and so inaction about your father and losing your father and him losing himself, which I think is one of the most painful parts of dementia and Alzheimer’s et cetera, and still, and you were giving, you were still giving on your leave. That is wild to me. 

You were a bright spot. It felt…. you know, had it come, like, in the first week of my leave, I probably was under, you know, in my blanket Fort at home hiding. But you reached out during a time when I was ready to start finding people again and reaching out to my tribe and it was just really great. It was really great, really great timing, so.

Oh, wow. . It’s like that thing that’s always on Facebook. You never know what battles other people are managing. And here you are. You’re so proactive. 

Yeah. So many people are hiding. 

Yeah. So many people are hiding. So when you decided to go on leave, how did that happen with your extended community?

That’s a great question. I was pretty discreet about it at the time. I was pretty open about it when I came back. But at the time that I went out, it was just, I shared it with a very few people and really just kind of that I was going out on a medical leave and my immediate team definitely they knew, and I was really clear and transparent with them, but broadly it was just kind of a medical leave was how we positioned it. And then when I came back and as the years have passed, I’ve been much more obviously very open about the catalyst for that and what it was. And, you know, the thing that really struck me Nicole when you were saying, we don’t know what other people are going through. As I’ve been posting and stuff in mental health awareness month, I’ve really been trying to bring a lot of this out. The number of instant messages and stuff that I’ve gotten from friends, who I didn’t know, were suffering through something. From colleagues who were saying you’ve made me stop and think that maybe I need to walk away for a little bit. It’s just amazing how many people are just trying to carry the entire world on their shoulders and not let anything drop. And the moment that someone starts to tell them, you know, you can, it doesn’t critically impact who you are as a human. You’re not failing people. You’re not going to lose your career. You’re not like it’s okay to step away and take some time. And just planting that seed for a few people. And these are people where I’m like, wow, I had no idea. People have no idea what others are going through because we just keep powering on. 

Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent. And especially in our industry, when, so often it feels like we’re holding on so tightly to what we’ve accomplished. And one of the things I hear so many times for my clients is like; But I have to, I have to bring these other people up, but I have this chance, but I can’t lose this chance. And if I make this horizontal move, am I ruining my career? If I leap to this smaller company or a bigger company, am I ……..let alone talking about mental health? And therapy. And as you know, I lived in Germany for a very long time. Therapy here is something or mental health is something that, from my perspective, we talk about fairly openly in the United States in comparison to Germany. And the first few times I talked about, I’m in therapy, I’ve been in therapy. I had an eating disorder. I was diagnosed with depression the first time when I was like eight or nine years old, And therapy for me, if I, if I had a wand. They’re 12. 13. Okay. Now I have a nine-year-old. So maybe nine-year-old. You just get a counsellor, you just get a therapist once a week. It’s just the way it is. Everybody has one because I know that I have created hurt for myself, but more importantly, I’ve created hurt for my community because I didn’t manage my low self-esteem. Instead, I brought that in projected that

You know it’s funny that you say that because I had a colleague, I was talking with very recently, actually about the fact that I kept powering through work with all of this stuff going on in my personal life. I kept powering through work and I look back on it now that rearview mirror, right. It’s so brilliant. Where at the time we think we’re holding it together and we’re powering through, but, but in reality, I look back and what I know it was happening was the team. I had an amazing team, Nicole. I mean, you knew most of them, right? I had a great team. They were doing just fine without me. They were power through. And then I would drop back in at these moments of deep reconnection and suddenly try and catch up and change everything or insert myself into things. And then I would have the personal stuff would get overwhelming again. And maybe I would take a little bit more of a backseat for a while and they would, again, they would do just fine, but this disruption that I caused by diving in and out at this like deep, shallow, deep, shallow level. Didn’t do anyone any favors. And the project was fine. It would have been fine if I had been deeply immersive and fine if I wasn’t, but I think I caused a lot of disruption for them that didn’t have to be there by not acknowledging that it was okay for me to step back and take care of me for a little bit consistently. And we don’t realize. As we’re trying to power through these things. We think, I think we kind of trick ourselves into believing that we’re doing favors for others by continuing to stay engaged when maybe if we just got out of their way, that might be the better option. And it’s a scary thing to put yourself in that position of getting out of the way, because then I’m not needed, then I’m not valuable. Does that mean they realize they don’t actually need me .So, what does that do to my career? Like if all of these things crop up and so it’s a really vulnerable thing to, to step away. It’s, it’s hard to do that. 

Yes.Yeah. I’m thinking of an example. When we were at the same company, when there were two of us and we were set up, it was like a, who’s going to do the job better kind of thing. And he’s also American. He’s a good friend of mine now, and we really struggled. And at some point I don’t, I think probably he, cause he was way more socially aware at the time realize what was happening. And one of us had to decide we were going to do something else and I was terrified. Was terrified. I am this American I’m living in Germany, if I go into this other role…… And instead, it became this incredible, well, first of all, just an amazing friendship with him, but also that’s how I got into change management because I left that comms role where we were set up to fight with each other. And I went into a change role, which enriched my entire life. And I didn’t learn until recently. And for me that there’s a bridge in here. I had an intern at the time I had two interns. Both of them came up through development. They were both going to Karlsruhe. One, within weeks she was like, yeah, no, I really, I know I want to be in DEV. And the other one really was so excited to bring the DEVand the COMMS together. And she told me a few years ago, how much it meant to her to see someone role model, not fighting, choosing peace and making a career move, and I think about your story and yeah, like the fear is so real, but you role modelled for all those people. And now for everyone listening to this, which is like, in my opinion, is a lot of people per episode, you’re giving that gift again. You’re role modelling for us. That we can do this differently. We can take care of ourselves. We can prioritize our mental health and still enjoy our careers as women, as women in tech.

Yeah, we, we absolutely can. And you know, that’s, I always say like, if, if I can change the trajectory for one person, That it was worth sharing my story. And I feel that way with teen moms, when I talked to them, you know, everybody. If it helps anybody, then it was worth it to be vulnerable. And I think as women and as women leaders, it’s, it’s important. We’ve got to, I said it earlier, we’ve got to lead out loud. We have to lead out loud, right? It’s the only way that we have to model that behavior and to model that you can have both worlds and that you can take big risks and you can do brave things and you come out the other side and not only in tech, but oftentimes better. Right? A better version of me. I feel like I came all of that. A better version of me. Then I was when I went in. And so it all happens for a reason. 

So really specifically, when you look back rearview mirrors, so right. What were like one or two of those early signs that were like, Hey girl, Hey, let’s slow it down, that you totally ignored?

Yes. Oh, I, you know, I, I have kind of some personal and some professional ones, so. I will try and simmer it down to a couple. Personally, one thing that I noticed, so I have some auto-immune stuff that goes on. And when my sleep is disrupted, I am in pain, literal physical pain that gets worse and worse. The longer my sleep is disrupted and that’s a spiral for me that I now am catching much earlier in the spiral than I was before, where I was catching it down at, at the very bottom of it. So for me, any, some triggering events that I watch for personally is around sleep disruption. I think that that’s huge. Arianna Huffington does a whole set of Ted talks and everything else around, around sleep disruption. And I, it was so funny because I’m sitting at conferences, listening to her, talk about this stuff while I’m in the throes of dealing with all of this. So, um, You know, it, it at least prompted me to pay attention to it in a different way, but I let it go too far. Now I catch it much earlier in the cycle. It’s okay. For example, to take a sick day for mental health, right? If you find yourself getting into that spiral and you need a day, we don’t give ourselves permission. That’s not a sick day. I don’t have the flu. I don’t have….. And sometimes it’s as simple as you need to reset your sleep schedule. So sleep for me is a really, really big one. Professionally I think I come up to speed on topics very quickly. I have a good memory for to-do items, action items, that sort of thing. I’m able to track a lot. It’s a gift I think I got from my dad who was on the spectrum and he really had a tremendous memory. And so when I started dropping balls and losing my ability to track or to focus. On what was in front of me, that to me should have been a trigger. And I think if someone is struggling with a whole lot going on in other areas of their life, and they’re finding themselves not able to concentrate or making more lists than you usually make or anything, that’s out of your normal operation, when you’re at a hundred percent, I joke about the best version of me. But I think that’s the cases when it’s not the best version of you, that’s showing up, then it’s probably time to step back and say, why is that? And then honor that, right? What can I do to honor that? We may step back and realize what it is that’s causing it, but we often don’t give ourselves permission to go fix that thing.

That is beautiful. Yeah. When I think about our time working together, the image of a pelican comes into mind because a pelican, you know, stays very still. And like balances on nothing. And then when they dive, it’s like with precision, with accuracy and you just, you, for me, you just pop back up and like, okay, let’s go. And then there’s this stillness and then, uh, a dive. So I’ll thank you for sharing that sleep and showing up as who you are with your strengths. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Thank you so so much. And in the show notes, we’re actually, I’m going to share some resources for people who want to learn more. If any of this resonates with you and you think this is something that I really should look into in the show notes, we’re going to have some more materials because what I would like to also share is nobody looks at high blood pressure and says, okay, I’m just gonna power through or diabetes I’m just gonna think myself to help.

Yes you are so right! Absolutely. If it’s physical, somehow it’s give ourselves that grace. And when it’s not, it’s like we discredit it. Because we feel, we feel broken when it’s not something people can see from the outside, then it must be that I am broken, right?

And nothing could be further from the truth. That means you’re human, having a human experience. And I cannot remember who the famous actor is. It may have been Kevin Bacon. It may have been Kevin Bacon’s colleague, definitely from the eighties. He recently said;” Refusing to have mental health is permitting us, our souls to be colonized by a power that hurts us.” 

Wow. 

Yeah. So sorry, Kevin bacon, if it wasn’t you, it should. All right. So who is a brave role model in your life? 

Oh, I, you know, I have spent some time thinking about this one and this probably gonna feel like a cop-out. So I apologize if, if that’s how it comes across. Cause it’s not meant that way, but there are so many people in my life who I look to for those, those pockets of bravery, depending on what it is that I need. And so just as a couple of examples, like my kids who are adults, but I still call them kids. They embody authenticity and they are bravely and unapologetically. They show up as just themselves, every day. They’re great at boundaries are great at all of these things. And so when I need to tap into just being me, like, I just remember they, they’ve just always done this and I’m in awe of both of them. And their, like I said, just their bravery and their ability to just be them. And they’re so good at that, Nicole. And so, you know, I, I love that about them. And then on the flip side of that, I spent several..

That does not feel like a cop-out. I’m going to feel that way about my babies too. 

You will I promise. And then these hospice patients who they are facing, like the worst possible thing and they’re living and they’re loving and they’re doing what needs to be done. And for some of them, they’re still fighting. And I just like, there’s bravery in that. And, and I remember that like any day I have a bad day at work. I remember that perspective guys, nobody dies here. It’s, it’s perspective. And I just think that’s so important. And then I have colleagues who are taking these big beefy risks. They’re moving across country. They’re living away from people that they love. They’re bringing new products to market. They’re,  doing big things. And I sit in awe of them every day, watching them, just take these risks. When risk for me is something I have to consciously do. It doesn’t come naturally. Right. I force myself into it. And for people who make that look easy, I’m just sit in awe of that and so many women in tech that I’ve met through the years, who I’m still very, very connected to. Um, Patty Fletcher, Laura Butler, Sue van Klink, like Lisa Hartley, the names go on and on, and they all just jumped forward with these risks. And I’m like, wow. Wow. Right. So when I think about who gives me my brave, like. I tap into that from so many people, it would be unfair for me to name a single person. 

That was so inspiring. I haven’t heard some of those names in a while and they are some of the coolest women. 

Absolutely. I am so fortunate to have the circle of women that I have. It’s when I look at my career, which looks a little bit like a family circus cartoon, cause I’ve done so many things, but the women that are in my circle and so many men. Really incredible male leaders who fiercely paved the way for other people and for women to rise through the ranks. Like it’s not just the women in my circle that I love. And I’m just very, very lucky that I’ve crossed paths with so many incredible people. 

Thank you for that. That was, that was so holistic from kids to hospice, humans, to colleagues. Thank you. All right. Well, I am super grateful if you want to follow along with Brenda or reach out, um, LinkedIn is the best channel, right?

Yup. LinkedIn would be great. You’ll find me under Brenda Reid, HR. LinkedIn, and Twitter, but I do most of my posting on LinkedIn for whatever reason it’s the platform I seem super comfortable with. So. 

Oh, fantastic. Oh my goodness. So from one woman in tech to the next, thank you for sharing this crazy industry with me. , 

I am thrilled to be here, Nicole and I am blessed to have known you for as long as I have. So thank you very, very much. 

It’s my pleasure. All right. Bye 

Bye. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Celebrate BRAVE podcast.

If you’re ready to build your brave, to live a life you love, and create a career that matters to you. Reach out! Together we can spend time one-on-one to explore how I can help you. And until then share this episode with people in your life. People who can join our movement. To redefine brave how we identify it, experience it, and celebrate it.