Welcome to the Celebrate BRAVE podcast. 

I’m Nicole Trick Steinbach, your host, and the international bravery coach. On a mission to redefine brave. How we identify it, live it, and most importantly, celebrate it. Because when you build your brave, you change your world and that changes the world. Talk about something to celebrate. Let’s go.

Hello, brave people. Today, I am so excited to bring from behind the curtain in front on the stage, my podcast manager. She’s amazing. She’s so excited to be here, twist, twist, twist, but I thought this would be a really amazing way. I get a lot of questions about how I do my podcast and I think people deserve to know you. So please welcome Laila Noort. She is Dutch which is very exciting to me and lives in Belgium, the French-speaking part. So Laila’s company is called; The podcast journey. She took me from; Hey, I have this idea, it won’t go away, it’s very annoying, but I don’t know how to do it. I remember, breaks in our initial conversations when I would say something and then you would guide me with a very gentle, loving hm. So the name of the podcast is celebrate brave rather than some of the other crazy ideas I’m sure that I had. And we’re really here with this incredible production and the heart centred stories in large part because of her guidance. So I am so excited you’re in front of the curtain for this episode and that people get the chance to know you and your brave story.

So welcome. 

Thank you. This is very exciting and very scary. So, yeah. Um, well, my name is Laila. I am Dutch. I live on a small cottage farm. 

Oh my god! Have I been saying Layla again? 

Yes, but that is fine! 

See you guys. This is how hard it is to manage me. You do such a good job. Okay. 

Okay. Laila. I don’t know. My parents had this crazy idea of calling me Laila, but yes, 

But it’s beautiful.

Yeah. Thanks. Well, it’s actually a Middle Eastern name. It has a meaning. The meaning is: beautiful night. And then I come along with my blue eyes and my blonde hair. And everybody’s like WHAT!, yeah, 

That speaks to me so much for you and how we work together because it’s such a gentle power that you bring into our relationship and our conversations.

Thank you. Okay. You’ve got me all red already. So we have just started. Okay. So, well, my story, I think I have to start it the way, way beginning to understand the path that I am right now. I’m an introvert a really, really big one, but I have known that I’m an introvert since five years, because I grew up in the seventies and the eighties. And nobody really talked about being an introvert. And that was not something that was discussed in my middle-class society that I lived in. So I always felt a bit different, but I couldn’t understand why. And also it’s very difficult as an introvert to, to live in a world that is dominated by extroverts. So my parents didn’t know exactly what to do with that. And my teachers. I started working as an assistant and later on, I found out that introverts are very good assistant and supportive personnel. They’re very good at that, but I didn’t know that. I started working and then the only way I could figure out how to do that is to pretend I’m somebody else that I’m not. So I would go and work in an office and I would be a very extroverted person talking to everybody, but I was so tired all the time and I couldn’t figure out what that was. I think it was like five years ago. I changed jobs and I got to work for a company with a horrible, horrible manager. 

Oh no

Yes. It was one of those people that thrive on somebody else’s mistakes. He was the poster boy of narcissism, and he just made my life a living hell, but I couldn’t change jobs because it was very difficult and I was the breadwinner at that time so we needed the money. So I stayed there and it got really bad. For example, in the mornings, we had to stand in front of the, of the room at the board with, uh, numbers on it. And then we would discuss how well we did with our projects the day before. And he would just pick on somebody and he would just. You know, like, why didn’t you do this and why didn’t you do that? And you only did half, why is that? That sort of things. And he would always like to pick me and I would always get this face, of course. And it was just horrible. Every morning I was sitting there with my heart pounding, like, oh, is he going to do that again? And in the end, he, he said to me, yes, I want you to do a presentation for a group of people I have never met. And that was not in my job description at all. And I said, no, I’m not going to do that. And he kept pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing. And at some point I just snapped. I went to the bathroom, I cried my heart out. I packed my stuff. I said to my colleagues, I’m going home sick. I went home. I completely, well was out of it, but I had to go back, you know, I still had to go back. And the next day I got back, I got reprimanded for leaving the company without permission.

Yeah, I know ! There was no word of, oh, you poor thing. You cried and how can we make it better for you? No, I got an official note in my record.

This is the worst version of Agile I’ve ever heard. This is like abusive, agile. Yeah, this is stunning to me. Okay. Okay. 

So I could hang around for a couple of days after that, but I got into that really aggressive mode. I was just like this all the time and I was biting people’s heads off. And that was totally not me. I’m yeah, like you said, I’m a gentle person. And then I wanted to drive my car off the road. And then it was like, oh, this is not good. So I got into, a major burnout.

WOW, one moment, we have so much in common. I’ve never spoken about this on a recorded line. Well, no, the first part, yes, but the second part not. I spent a year being aggressive to people because I was shown by promotions and salary increases that that’s what success looked like. And it was awful. It was horrific. It was, I didn’t love myself obviously. And I put that out there and I also have worked for people who behaved in somewhat like that fella, but I screamed back which also led to a reprimand. Anyhoo.  So there’s no winning is there, in a system that’s dominated by a personality, but I also have felt that it was too much and I was ready to not have feelings anymore. I’ve also felt they are, I was much younger, but I have also felt that urge. And I am so grateful for you to bring that into this incredible space because I believe just like miscarriages. They’re way more common than anyone knows. And thoughts of hurting ourselves and ending pain is way more common than anybody is familiar with, and especially this won’t go out in May, but this is still May as we record. And this is mental health awareness month. And I just, I want to honor that you have shared your truth and, and I’m connecting with you. Cause that’s my truth as well. So thank you. 

You’re welcome. Yes. So yes, I got into this really bad burnout. 

So how did you go from there? 

Yeah, I went to therapy. 

YES!!!

I couldn’t work anymore. I went to therapy. I got a really extensive, uh, psychology test and that opened my eyes and I was there in that centre for two days and they interviewed my husband as well. So it was really good. And the report I got, it stated that I was an introvert and I was, you know, like hurting myself by pretending to be somebody else. And I read this book. Quiet from what’s her name? Suzanne. I wrote it down. Well, hold on. Oh yeah. Suzanne….

The great thing about having a podcast editor…. 

I knew you were going to say that!!!!. So I read this book Quiet from Suzanne Cain and that changed everything because it was. You know how introverts have to function in an extroverted world? I was like, Really! That’s me, you’re talking about me. A lot of therapy, I have a really fantastic therapist in Gestalt Therapy. She’s amazing. That really, really, really helped. So in 2019, I went back to work. For another company for a year to replace somebody on maternity leave. And that was a total different experience for me. I had this manager and he was the best manager I’ve ever had. He was, that kind of people person manager, and I was his executive assistant. And sometimes I would just walk in the room and he would ask me something and bam, I would just get red for no apparent reason. I have that. That’s a thing, you know, introverts have that. And he would just completely ignore it and that calmed me down and then I could move on and he treated everybody as adults. And that was a new experience for me, because I always had to show people what I’ve done, account for things. And he would just say, I trust, no, I trust you. You don’t have to tell me everything. I trust you. If you work from home, I trust you. And that was such a new experience for me. And that opened my eyes to other possibilities. And he showed me that I could do whatever I wanted. And then the end of the contract, now that the other lady came back and it was 2020, and there was no work. So I decided to figure out what I wanted to do. And I was in this really good spot for myself for the first time ever. Like I could do anything I want, but what is it? So it took me about half a year, I think, to figure out I did a couple of other apprenticeships in social media marketing, and I figured that’s not the way I want it to go. And then I came across podcast management. And that’s opened a whole new world for me. It’s exactly a good extension of what I’ve done before as an executive assistant, you know, it’s the supporting somebody, it’s the tech, it’s the organizational skills and working from home. So I don’t have to sit in one of those big office garden spaces with 20, 30 other people in the middle of a room, which is a disaster for an introvert, but anyway, so I love my job. Yes. 

Yeah. It’s also a disaster for extroverts because we can’t stop talking to people and we get nothing done. And you know, one of the things that I loved about the book Quiet is that it also explains it’s not just me into the world. But it’s me of the world. Like how do I collect my energy? So you can have a quiet extrovert who is powerful in a situation, but also is collecting the energy around them. And for our audiences outside of Europe, we don’t call them garden spaces. We call them in German. They call them Großraumbüros. So big room offices or cubicles. We also refer to terms like this. And the first time I saw a quote-unquote garden office. I was expecting this lush gardeny, space. And there was literally one horribly overwatered like tree Bush thing in the middle. And then we just had all these open desks, not even like half wall cubicles. And I was like, I don’t know about this and for an extrovert, it was so painful because the energy sucked. Of course, it sucked. Right. And for an introvert, I can only imagine how that like. Just is an utter overwhelm suck out horrible experience. Yeah. So a question when you, we went from the narcissist to the like actual human leader, like he almost sounds like a servant leader. How do you think your growth through, first of all new vocabulary, and new learning to help self identify your own, your ownness, you’re humanness, your specialness, as well as your therapy, like how, did that play into the situation? 

What do you mean exactly? 

Well, I’m thinking about. So I shared the story about being very aggressive. And I worked for a company that believed in me, instead of firing me, they sent me to coaching. And when I was given these words like, well, of course, you think you have to be aggressive because that’s how you got a promotion. That’s how you got a significant salary increase. But here’s some other aspects. And the more I worked on myself, the more I could walk into a situation, and I could be like, oh, this is the person who has been shown through his success or her success that, that crappy behavior is necessary. And it’s to the point now where I can just be in a virtual call and I can see patterns because of all the work I’ve done in the last 15 years. So I’m wondering. I’m just going to throw some things out. Like, did it help you choose a better situation? Did it help you manage the situation better? Did it help you create boundaries of like, this is my power. That’s your power. Don’t play with me. Kind of. Like, how did that help you with your next situation? 

It helped me a little bit, but also I wasn’t completely healed yet because there was another manager who was definitely not like that. And a funny fact, he also worked for that other company before, so yes.

 Ahaaa 

I got into an argument with him and before I would just shut down and this time I would just say no. I don’t like your behavior. I don’t like the way you treat me. And he got totally angry with me, of course. But I felt so proud of myself. I still, I cried in the bathroom, but it was a moment of triumph for me because I said, no, no, I. Maybe you think it’s normal to talk to people like that. But for me it’s not normal. And that was pretty awesome. Yeah. 

How empowering!

 Through therapy and getting to know me and to not pretend anymore. Yeah. 

Oh, wow. And now you bring that power into your podcasting plan  

Well, and that’s amazing. And my clients, including you, are amazing. And I like the connection and, and yes, of course, and building something together. That’s, that’s the, you know, the route that we have taken, it was awesome. The first couple of months, it was very difficult. We both had to figure out a lot of things, but. Yeah, we had each other’s back and, uh, yeah, it was, uh, it was amazing. Yeah. I love my job. It’s so cool. Yes. 

I love your job. 

Who would have thought! I’m almost 50 years old and I finally can be me and I have this awesome job.

Yeah. And statistically, you have, cause you are in Europe right?. So statistically you have another 46 years 

Off working. Yes. 

Isn’t that exciting? 

Off working or living you mean? 

Uh, no, of being you!  

Well, the thing is I’ve never been happier with me….now. So yes, I am very happy that I figured everything, well, of course, I didn’t figure everything out, but I figured a lot out now when I’m 50. And I see people that are a lot younger and they are very concerned with what other people think and concerned about how are they going to do things in their life. And Roger and I were like, yeah, we’re okay. You know, we’ve been through hell and back. We’ve almost been bankrupt at some point. And, and now we’re just, we’re doing well. We both have work. We have everything we need we are so happy. So yeah, I can recommend being 50 to everybody. It’s wonderful. 

Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I had come back from college and my mom was quite young when she had me and her mom, but back then, like it was more common to have children very early. And my mom was actually the second of her mom. And so my Nana, we don’t call her granny or grandma cause she’s young. She was very young when she became, I think she was like 42 years old when she became a grandma and I was home for college. We got into talking about something. And anyways, I just remember she turned to me and she said, you know, life really begins around 60, 65. And I was like, WHAT! And, you know, she told me a whole story and her experience and it had a lot to do with the color purple. So for anybody out there, there’s a book. That’s something like when I’m old, I’ll wear a purple hat or something. And I went back and with my college friends, I must have had 15 conversations about this conversation. This life begins, or life is really free, or life is really rich or whatever after 60. I came to this place of like, For, for many generations, that’s when they were no longer in their parents’ house, that they were no longer in the role of parent above anything else. It was at this time where they began to be able to live in who they were. They had fulfilled the church expectations. They had fulfilled the limited view of society’s expectations. And now they could do things like wear purple. Or dye their hair blue, or go on a week holiday with their friends who all share the same name or whatever the case may be. Right. We all decided, and we sent this intention that we weren’t going to do that because we had lost a friend. And since then we’ve lost more of our friends. And I keep coming back to that and we keep coming back to it. About how you know now we’re all 40, 42. One of us is about to turn 40. This is not when life is going to start living to our values, making choices we were, we didn’t expect to make like the ones that were quote-unquote, supposed to have children, didn’t. And the one ….that’s me that was supposed to be living in some country and her partner lives in some country. And Lord knows right. I did. And embracing that and having that life now. So I just, I love that you brought that in because it’s never too early and it’s never too late. And all of us listening to this, we still have decades. We have decades, so it’s never too early and it’s never, ever too late. 

Yeah. And also with work, you know, I’m starting a whole new career at, at my age, who does that, but yeah, I’m doing it 

Right!. Cause there are many meta-level conversations that you’re not supposed to be doing that I’m not supposed to be doing that, but we are doing it and that’s why we laugh and that’s why we smile. And that’s why people are drawn to us. 

Yeah. Yeah, because you can stay in the job forever and then be miserable or change and yeah change is not easy and you have to work really hard. I work really hard and, but it’s so much fun. I never expected it to be so much fun. So yes, I can definitely recommend it.

Oh, fantastic. So, so that brings us. To doing something wacky and you shared in advance that your brave role model that you wanted to share with us was going to be unexpected for me. And I’m so excited. So who is the brave role model you want to share with us? 

Maybe it’s going to be a little bit emotional, but yes. My brave role model is actually a 22-year-old named Reilly she is from the Midwest. She is the daughter of a former acquaintance of mine. And in 2016, when she was 16, her mother said to me, okay, Reilly is going on a very bad path and I don’t know what to do. So I was just being spontaneous. I said, send her to me. She can get out of the environment that she is in. I will put her to work in the garden. So May, 2016. 

Wait, you mean physically send her to you?

 Yes, physically. Yes. 

And she’s from the Midwest of where? 

Chicago area. Somewhere there. 

Oh, she’s from the US since she went to Europe. Oh my gosh. Okay. Keep going, keep going.

At that time she was 16 in May. So she arrived. And she was this sulky teenager with bluish hair with a very bad dye bluish and, uh, yeah. Can you see that? I love teenagers. I don’t have any children. So probably that’s the reason why I love teenagers. I love teenagers because I understand, I understand, you know, I was a teenager. I have not forgotten. So she came. It took a, a couple of days for her to settle in. She was very quiet, but yes, we listened and we talked and we listened and we talked, but in a normal way, and then slowly, we got her story and it turned out that talking and listening was not something they did in the household that she grew up in. A lot of stories came out. In the end, she stayed with us for two months. And she completely changed. Her dye was gone. She had normal black hair, but also, uh, she learned to talk and to listen and behave properly. You know, we would sit at the table. we would have dinners, no phones, no cuss words. She would eat vegetables, uh, that sort of things. And after two months, she actually, I asked her, what do you want to eat that last dinner? And she asked I would eat rice and veggies like you make. I was like, okay, that’s the biggest compliment ever. I think that was not exactly how her mother thought it was going to be. So she got home. Turned 17 in September and then all hell broke loose. Her mother kicked her out and she was just starting her last year in high school. So I had this crying young lady on the phone. I was all the way across the world. I couldn’t do anything. So we figured things out. Luckily she could stay with a mother and a friend of hers and she could finish her high school. Ever since we stayed in touch, you know, I sometimes help her out financially, but most of the time emotionally. But for me, she is my role model because whatever happened, and she has had a lot of bad things happening to her, bad boyfriend, of course, you know, that’s how you roll into one thing and another so bad breakup, but she’s reinventing herself all the time. And she’s now starting her own company as a nanny. And I’m just amazed. I’m just amazed after all that she’s been through. She still keeps on going and I find that inspiring. So yes. My role model is a 22-year-old girl from Chicago. Yes. I thought that was a really good one. 

You were right? I, that, and I am emotional. Yeah. Reilly, we are proud of you. 

Yes. Yes, I am so proud of her. Yes. She doesn’t realize how, how good she is because everybody wants to help her. And she doesn’t understand why, but I tell her, you know, that’s because you are a good person. She had, the whole, her life, I didn’t know all these things, huh but her whole life she’s been told that she is bad person. She Is not worth it. Uh, she couldn’t do anything. And I didn’t know how that household works. So for me, it was just a spontaneous action of inviting her into my home. And now she calls me mom. It’s amazing. Yeah. So if she can do things I sure can do them as well. 

And that is the power right there in living who we are, introvert-extrovert, whole soul, hurting soul. We inspire each other and, and that’s, you know, that’s our work together with this podcast is sharing those stories so that we inspire each other and others because there are so many of us, a million Reilly’s who, who don’t get that intervention and deserve it. 

Yes!  

oh my gosh, I’m crying again.

I love the work we do together so much. 

Yeah, me too. 

And to that point, where can our listeners learn even more about your offering, your business? Why they should work with you? 

Well, I have a website, thepodcastjourney.com. I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn, so I will put this all in, in the podcast description. This is really weird.

This is like being  John Malcovich, right?

Yes, exactly. So don’t worry. You can find everything in the episode description, but yes. I would love to work with more people like you. It will be awesome. I started my own podcast to see how, how that works. It’s horrible. It’s really, really tough to have a podcast, but yes, it’s going, I talk about podcasting. It’s the podcast journey podcast. I would love to connect with you. If you want to start a podcast, I am your girl. 

Excellent. Yes. And Laila really is your girl. So when we first started working together, I touched on this, but I just want to repeat it. I had this whisper of sharing stories and sharing timeless stories. And especially with my charging model, not everyone can work with me. They should be, cause we’re in tech and tech makes a lot of money, but anyhow, and I wanted to be of greater service and, you know, Laila and I went from what I just described to you to this podcast, which we’ve already published I believe 23 episodes, and we have a backlog and we are getting so much feedback and connection and the quality is baller. Wait until she helps you pick out music. Oh, So fun and it’s easy. I know that Laila just shared that for her it’s hard to, you know, to do these podcasts, but from my perspective, because I’m not technically editing anything, nor am I publishing or doing all of that stuff, it’s a joy, this is a gift I give to the world. And because I work with you. It’s a gift to me. Because I know I’m putting these stories and my own stories into the world to inspire the Nicole’s, the Reilly’s the Laila’s. Yes. Thank you. 

Thank you. This was really amazing. 

All right. Until the next episode. Bye 

Bye.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the celebrate brave podcast.

If you’re ready to build your brave, to live a life you love, and create a career that matters to you. Reach out! Together we can spend time one-on-one to explore how I can help you. And until then share this episode with people in your life. People who can join our movement. To redefine brave how we identify it, experience it, and celebrate it.